stewie griffin
3:44 Thu Dec 11
Re: Ravel Morrison
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"But people don't talk about 'natural talent' in those terms. They're often talking about some strange mythical x factor that apparently some people just possess and others don't. And apparently it's there from birth, even though none of us have the ability to trace a human life with such accuracy. It's basically a completely unscientific 'messiah' myth. "
In equal measure I think - as shown on a number of occasions - science and sport don't necessarily mix. Just a couple of weeks ago, we had a theory developed by statistical boffins that extrapolated that Aston Villa would score 1 more goal between now and the end of the season.
It was, like most statistics, complete bollocks.
In fact, the unquantifiables of sport are precisely what makes it interesting. As a gambling man, you should know that better than anyone.
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Eggbert Nobacon
3:42 Thu Dec 11
Re: Ravel Morrison
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Alex
I think that's what it probably is
genetic advantages = natural talent
obviously you then have to train them properly to make the most
you certainly can't take any two people and give them the same training and get exactly the same result
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Alex V
3:39 Thu Dec 11
Re: Ravel Morrison
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>>> People have argued that natural talent doesn't exist.
I would rather say that the accepted version of what 'natural talent' is doesn't exist.
Nobody would deny that there are certain genetic influences on a predisposition towards physical application in sport. If you want to interpret that as 'natural talent' then I can't argue with that, but I think it's a really lazy and superstitious way of seeing it.
It is basically the same as saying that if you're tall you stand a better chance of becoming a basketball player. Okay we all agree that's true.
But people don't talk about 'natural talent' in those terms. They're often talking about some strange mythical x factor that apparently some people just possess and others don't. And apparently it's there from birth, even though none of us have the ability to trace a human life with such accuracy. It's basically a completely unscientific 'messiah' myth.
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Lily Hammer
3:37 Thu Dec 11
Re: Ravel Morrison
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Not that it doesn't exist, but asking how much of what is known as natural talent is in fact developed into the child/youth?
Playing catch with a toddler develops the hand eye co-ordination, for example.
I don't think this is one of Alex's Durham moments.
To be balanced, there is certainly differences between each child of teh same parents, even if they raise them pretty much the same. Some do have better motor-control from the start, and some are more lively where other are more docile.
Personally, I'd say the truth can be found in the old saying here.....
"Genius is one percent inspiration and ninety-nine percent perspiration."
Thomas A. Edison
Perhaps the 99% vs 1% is a little lopsided, but just a little.
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El Scorchio
3:32 Thu Dec 11
Re: Ravel Morrison
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The way I see it, training and applications helps someone to fully realise and exploit their innate natural talent.
Both are a factor, but you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
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stewie griffin
3:27 Thu Dec 11
Re: Ravel Morrison
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The difference is that no one has disputed that training and application is a contributing factor.
People have argued that natural talent doesn't exist.
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Eggbert Nobacon
3:27 Thu Dec 11
Re: Ravel Morrison
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re sprinting Alex -
"The ACTN 3 gene, the so-called sprint gene, explains a small amount variation at very high levels of performance. So if you don’t have the correct copies [of this gene] for sprinting, you’re not going to be in the 100m final."
So if you dont have that gene you could practice 5 times as much as Usain Bolt does in the same conditions reicsely and still not be as good
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Lily Hammer
3:26 Thu Dec 11
Re: Ravel Morrison
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egg
They may have had the same opportunities, but the training is up to each individual. Perhaps two of them were good at pulling birds, wheras the other was a bit shy, so carried on practising while heis brother went to indulge in a bit of french kissing and fingering.
Anyway, why is this still going on when I pulled the trump card of Roy Castle?
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Alex V
3:24 Thu Dec 11
Re: Ravel Morrison
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>>> So his physical difference gives him abilities that others do not have, no matter how much learning or training is involved. We're all born different, some of us are better at things than others.
Agreed, but it really stretches the practicality of citing natural talent. Some of us might have the 'natural talent' to be a giant, others to be a dwarf. It's not really a talent, it's a physical attribute.
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Eggbert Nobacon
3:23 Thu Dec 11
Re: Ravel Morrison
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Alex V
Speaking of the Maywetahers
How do you explain the differences in talent between his Uncles and fathyer
3 brothers who would have had all the same training and opportunities yet all differing levels of fighter?
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Alex V
3:19 Thu Dec 11
Re: Ravel Morrison
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penners28 1:57 Thu Dec 11
Yet I check Mayweather's background and I find, once again, anecdotal evidence that he was geared up to be a boxer basically from birth. Born into a boxing family, pushed into boxing from being practically a toddler, trained by his own father.
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El Scorchio
2:08 Thu Dec 11
Re: Ravel Morrison
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Alex V 12:37
So his physical difference gives him abilities that others do not have, no matter how much learning or training is involved. We're all born different, some of us are better at things than others.
There you go.
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penners28
1:57 Thu Dec 11
Re: Ravel Morrison
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my mate is a boxer. trains practically every day. has had 5 fights and his record is 4-1-0.
he'll never go pro though as he's not good enough. he knows that. he could train 24/7 and still wouldnt be.
you cant tell me that the reason mayweather is at the top of his game is just because he trains a lot? its natural ability that these people are at the top.
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theaxeman
1:55 Thu Dec 11
Re: Ravel Morrison
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Basically he's a CUNT isn't he!
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Eerie Descent
1:52 Thu Dec 11
Re: Ravel Morrison
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Alex is a natural born fisherman, and there is no one better at it. He blows the Orange mob out the water.
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Lily Hammer
1:40 Thu Dec 11
Re: Ravel Morrison
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Better balance is learnet through practice, so is walking. If you starp a baby into a pram all day every day for its first two years, it will have under-developed legs, and shitty balance and co-ordination skills. It would probably learn to walk once rescued from the pram prison, but it would take longer to learn to walk and would quite possibly have an ungainly style.
Nobody straps their kids into prams, but some kids have active lives, other sit on the floor in front of the TV all their spare hours, and you know which ones are more likely to be sporty and which one will have two left feet.
It's hard to say how many peopel who train regularly will achieve top levels in sports and other skillful occupations, as we don't know if they really REALLY put in the hours and were really REALLY focussed.
What we do know, is that nearly every top level performer, who has made it, will tell you they got there by working their nuts off....or ovaries out. I don't know of any top level performer who says they didn't really train hard or show determination and dedication but just seem to have the knack of this skills and abilities lark.
Roy Castle made it clear that dedication is all you need, so who are you lot to argue with Roy?
Eh?
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zebthecat
1:36 Thu Dec 11
Re: Ravel Morrison
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So, the only reason that I haven't scored 8,000 test runs is lack of practice.
Goddammit!
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Buster
1:34 Thu Dec 11
Re: Ravel Morrison
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Are you naturally boring, Alex, or did it take years of practice?
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Alex V
1:34 Thu Dec 11
Re: Ravel Morrison
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It amazes me how much of a sacred cow this is for people. Actually it doesn't - I see how it's woven into the belief systems of so many of us like religious dogma is/was.
Think about is. Some of us are born with supreme natural balance that can't be taught. And some aren't. If only we could measure this at birth, we could put babies into the 'elite sports' track and save all those failed sportsmen a lot of bother!!?
Of course the bullshit idea that some people are just better than others has been drummed into us for generations.
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Buster
1:31 Thu Dec 11
Re: Ravel Morrison
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V and plw should be put in a room to see who can argue/bore the other to death first.
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ironsofcanada
1:29 Thu Dec 11
Re: Ravel Morrison
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Alex is doing very well here and has expanded his Adrian Durham-like skills beyond the discussion of football.
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